>>9576099 I get horrible hangovers, and always feel like I'm somehow damaging my brain when I do it.
I am paranoid almost to the point where it's debilitating though so maybe i'm just overreacting
Native Japanese Speaker!!8RQHsvbK0W1 08/14/12(Tue)01:43 No.9576119
Native Japanese Speaker!!8RQHsvbK0W108/14/12(Tue)01:43No.9576119
On another note,
Though I deem mixing drinks with soft drinks is a behavior gayer than no other and don't condone the consumption of corn syrup, sake is really good if you mix it with Cream Soda at a 50/50 (or to your liking) ratio.
The best way to imbibe is from a warm carafe. Take it in shots from a small glass of some sort. It's just wine, so if you have any kind of tolerance you'll be fine unless you chug the shit in which case you're acting like an overzealous retard.
It's like any other alcoholic beverage. The cheaper the booze, the worse the recovery. I used to drink sake a lot with meals, though, and having a full stomach definitely diminished the possibility of a hangover. Of course, there's the trade off with a full stomach that your pyloric valve will be closed so your stomach's absorption rate of the alcohol will be significantly reduced and it will take more of it to get drunk.
>>9576220 Yeah, just a regular shot glass will do.
Sweet sake is a different thing. A good plum sake tastes like the godliest ice wine you've ever had. It can be served warm or cold, but I prefer it cold and should be sipped, because the flavor is really lovely.
Kid, do you think you can just come around here and say shit like that? If otaku culture relevance was muscle mass the average kig suiter could rip you in fucking half and pleasure himself using your intestines as a cock sleeve
Do not talk shit on our kigfriends I will end your pathetic existence
>>9576121 I'm not going to ask your age, but if your younger than 22, that's when hangovers started for me. so look out for then.
I'm still a heavy drinker though, but I never go out so I don't have to worry about how I act. Drink like 64 ounces of gatorade, a liter of water before bed, and a liter of water when you wake up to piss, then drink water right after you wake up. I also have xanax for my anxiety, but I don't really take it during the day unless I have to go out, one in the morning always helps my hangovers.
I dunno OP, the best I can say is that pacing yourself when you drink is a very personal and difficult to explain thing. I'm not you, and you aren't me. It's also as much an art as a science.
You just kind of have to develop the experience and intuition for what you can take on your own.
As long as you don't go crazy and basically pour whatever you are drinking down your throat like some asshole frat pledge, you should get plenty of clues from the way you are feeling physically and mentally well before you've had more than you want.
Sake isn't grain alcohol after all, so you won't be puking your guts out in the nearest toilet before blacking out unless you try really, really hard.
(Funnily enough, the only time I've actually blacked out was drinking low grade, relatively high alcohol content wine, kind of like some of your cheaper sake, and that was in a particularly vicious mixed manic/depressive mood where my overall judgement was at an all time low, and my self hatred and destructiveness at a high. I don't think I EVER cleaned up all the mess from that night.)
But yeah, myself I don't really have too much trouble. I pretty much have finely honed mental categories for various levels of "buzzed", "pretty drunk" "drunk" "roaring drunk" and etc. (personally I like the last category the most, but hate it tapering off.)
>>9576402 I can dig what you are saying. I haven't yet had a dryer Sake that I actually liked a lot.
For my money, something like Sake just doesn't have a lot going for it if has a neutral flavor, and a relatively moderate to low alcoholic content. I'm more inclined to tolerate something that tastes evil if it's actually STRONG.
It's funny because young beer drinkers seem to have that problem more often than not, especially if they're half alcoholics and used to downing a few crates a week. They're completely reckless with strong shit and then go around saying that it's pure evil.
>>9577211 I would like to hear some recommendations too, becouse I drink alcohol very rarely so I dont know anything about this kind of thigs.
They dont seem to sell many kinds of sake in my country, but atleast I found some "Misakura Daiginjo Sake" (0,72l, 16,85€) and "Kura no Machi Tokubetsu Junmai Ginjo Sake" (0,3l, 5,34€) in my local liqour store. Im thinking about trying that 0,72l one, even though it costs so much.
It all started when I was visiting breweries across the #2 sake town in Japan, Fushimi of Kyoto. I was just about done touring the big ones (such as Gekkeikan, I'm sure you've all seen that hideous export-only version in stores), when I decide what the hell, let's go for one more.
月の桂 (Tsuki no Katsura) is the oldest brewery in Kyoto. Right now Mr. Tokubee Masuda's the 14th generation owner of the place, and he had even changed his name to share the same one with the 1st generation founder. That's how much dedication to tradition these conservative breweries have.
Anyways, the man just floored me with his enthusiasm and generosity. I've had maybe 2 or 3 shots per each brewery, but then Mr. Masuda starts taking out bottle after bottle out of his fridge onto this place's tasting bar.
12 glasses later, I'm in ecstasy. Every sake the small brewery made was on a different level compared to the big names. I especially liked his high-grade unfiltered, unpasteurized nigorizake, which is usually made with cheaper methods because of the inherent brashness in such a style. But not so for 月の桂. Mr. Masuda was responsible for bringing the resurrection of unfiltered sake to the modern seishu market, which had previously been completely illegal.
That was only 4 years ago. Since then, I've read 8 books on the subject, and have visited 20 or so breweries.
And that's my stupid-ass sake story. Share yours everyone.
also, pic related. he's on the left and I have no idea who that is on the right.
If you guys want a good entry-level sake that doesn't taste like watered down vodka, I suggest actually going for some big-name brands.
Indeed, the "Johnnie Walkers" of the sake world don't have much in terms of outstanding characteristics for high-level products, but they have the infrastructure that allows decent quality at an affordable price. (that includes the top 2: Gekkeikan and Hakutsuru)
The absolute best value per volume, though, has got to be this one tetra-pack sake, a Junmai by Hakushika. Usually, being in a pack means its complete shit. But this one's a blessing in disguise. If you feel you're not experienced enough to appreciate the nuances of great sake yet, this is a good place to start. The company describes it as dry, but it's not. It's overall sweet and easy to approach.
>>9577522 There are various low-alcohol sakes designed for picky women or light drinking men.
Sake is usually diluted to about 15% ABV, for taste. Those specially chosen not to be diluted (Genshu, 原酒), can go up to 17~18%. Not a huge difference on paper, but you'll strangely feel MUCH more fucked up after even a couple glasses.
Anyways, most low-alochol sakes go from about 6 to 8% ABV. They either taste much cleaner than normal (almost like water), or are sweeter than normal. Unfortunately, these are pretty much "specialty" brews, and I don't know about the worldwide availability...
A personal favorite of mine is Hofukuzetto by Tsuki no Katsura. I really doubt they can be found outside japan, so here's an abritrary pick from Sawanotsuru (another big producer in Nada).
It's called Tama Usagi, and it's the watery sake I was talking about. It's extremely clean.
Accordingly, however, you won't find a big a punch of flavor as in higher ABV brews. This one has a very light, "pretty" floral aroma. The flavor itself is "water," as previously mentioned, but the finish is kinda toasty. Mmm. Don't go TOO overboard, though, because it's still 12.5% ABV.
The brew is a blended sake (Lol). It's 30% ginjo grade sake + 70% junmai grade. Makes sense, too, as the nose is pretty like a ginjo and tastes ricey-toasty like a junmai.
952 yen for a standard 720mL bottle. I gave this a fucking 6.7/10 in my tasting notes way back, but I didn't like low alochol sakes to begin with.
>>9577578 Ah, you have excellent artistic taste. It really is Tsuki no Katsura's flagship brew, and it's apparent in their little trinket that was given to me as a gift, a 1/10 miniature toy of the bottle, the box, a tokkuri, and a fun description card.
The only kinds of alcohol I can cope with are ones that don't taste much like alcohol, eg. 酎ハイ and 梅酒. I can only drink weak things, and I physically can't down enough of them to have ever been drunk (not that I want to be).
>>9577600 shit man, I feel your pain. can I guess a guess and say it's stomach problems? Lately, I've been getting gastritis every time I have a decent amount of drinking. I WANT to drink more, but I get nausea, indigestion, and suffer low gastric motility for like 3 days.
>>9577868 I must be getting fucking droopy here. A good example of a light and sweet sake is Yamano Kotobuki, from Fukuoka. But again, hard to find outside japan.
And it'd be bad if you bought a 40-dollar daiginjo and you hated it. Now that I think about it, an entry-level amakuchi sake would be better for you. This is Sayuri, an unfiltered sake that is very sweet and is marketed towards women who find it hard to approach alcohol.
Of course, anyone that likes refined, elegant drinks will absolutely hate this. But it does a good job of filling the casual "alcopop" section of the market. A small bottle should cost around 6 bucks, so if you hate it, you won't have to curse me.
>>9577917 >Sake is usually diluted to about 15% ABV, for taste. Those specially chosen not to be diluted (Genshu, 原酒), can go up to 17~18%. Not a huge difference on paper, but you'll strangely feel MUCH more fucked up after even a couple glasses.
>>9576088 one last question before I go, I guess. I missed OP's questions.
My container of choice for sake, regardless of brew style: a white wine (specifically chardonnay) glass. Pic related is a pretentious Riedel supposedly extensively-researched by a bunch of japanese sake experts. Anything of this shape will do fine.
On the right is what seems to be getting popular in Japan for sake snobs (like me). The little spike in the middle supposedly brings out the aromas better for Daiginjos.
Measuring is a bitch, though. A good solution is to get a normal shot glass (love the ones that have labels like measuring cups) and fill it however much you feel is decent, and then pour it all into your wine glass.
Only bother with little o-chokko shot cups when you're in the mood, or are drinking heated sake.
The wooden box is called a "masu," and is made of japanese cedar. they used to be rice-measuring cups, and people in ancient japan used to bring them to sake merchants to make sure they were getting the exact amount. They're fun, but hard to drink from, carry a strong aroma that will hinder your sake's fragrance, and is otherwise useless.
>>9578005 Oni-fist, fellow sake drinker whose sake not even drop.
One more tidbit before I pass out, just for you. Apologies if I don't make any sense anymore.
I mentioned in my last post that Daiginjo is the brew to be anal about enjoying the aroma. But why is that, when the JUNMAI Daiginjos also exist?
A quick rundown of what the difference is: Although adding massive amounts brewer's alcohol during the manufacturing of sake was originally used to make huge quantities of cheap shit, people have wisened up in recent years, and more snobs have appeared to put this practice to shame.
That's why for every grade of "special designation sake," ginjo, daiginjo, although not Honzojo( which by its definition inherently has artificial alcohol added), you can add another designation of "Junmai" if there was no artificial alcohol added during its creation.
So is every "Junmai" version better? Not necessarily, although many brewers market themselves as "junmai-only sake producers."
For great Daiginjos (as well as the lesser Ginjos), artificial alcohol is added, yes, but not in any quantity significant enough to alter the cost or output of production in ANY way. The alcohol is added because it BRINGS OUT much more fragrances from the rice mixture than if it wasn't. This is why you'll sometimes see a Daiginjo and JunmaiDaiginjo from the same brewery priced exactly the same. At such high levels of craftsmanship, being Junmai is only a matter of preference.
Personally, I find myself liking non-junmai versions of high-quality brews. I like sniffing from the glass all day like an asshole.
>>9578039 I know, right? Technically, it shouldn't detract TOO much from the flavor. Companies assert that the tetra-paks are specially coated to have absolutely no effect. I disagree. I've tasted plenty poorly-stored carton sakes that smelled of fucking GLUE.
Accordingly, you won't find too many self-respecting sakes in anything but a bottle or ceramic ornament. These fucking glass cups with canned lids was started by a company called Ozeki. Good for public transportation I've heard, but who wants to be a jackass that drinks on the way to work?
>>9578127 Only in the sense that it's a bastardization of the brew it's based on.
That Sayuri has no carbonation, is only lightly filtered so it's has ricey cloudiness (making it a "Nigori-zake"), and is syurpy-sweet.
Any natural carbonation in a sake would mean the yeast inside would had had to be active for a significant period of time after it was done getting bottled. This would mean it wasn't pasteurized (making it a "Nama-zake"), and for is one that should be decently expensive.
Artificially carbonated sakes exist as well. These so-called "sparkling sakes" are the real alcopops of the sake world. They take shitty, sweetly flavored sake and add artificial carbonation. Done right, they can be the best alcopop you've ever tasted, but it'd still be an alcopop.
even the venerable tsuki no katsura brewery has both a sparkling sake (pic related) and a low-alcohol sake for women.
>>9578163 I know only one respectable brewery that does weaboo shit. They base all their sakes on works by Rumiko Takahashi.
Not particularly accessible for import in the UK, though. What do you need it for? Get the cheapest BOTTLED sake at your local mart. Will taste like swill, but still feel cool for whatever party you're throwing.
>>9578174 Indeed. I had no idea even a single person would bother responding.
>>9578236 This, and I enjoy drinking. In fact, a pub or something would be nice. But nope, I'm in my mid-twenties so it's LET'S GO TO A CLUB AND DRINK SO MUCH WE'RE ALL SICK ISN'T THAT HILARIOUS. People honestly seem to believe that bodily problems are the mark of a good night out.
I don't hate it, I just hate being socially obliged to do things to fit in. I'd rather be by myself than act in a certain way to be part of a stupid group. Watching people gladly hand over $10 for a cocktail that barely tastes any better than a $2 soft drink confuses me.
I do hate the thought of getting drunk as it would be out of character for me.
>>9578246 >pub or something would be nice. Or a gentleman's bar. Or an izakaya. Or even at home around the couch with friends. Fact of the matter is, with the appropriate blood alcohol level, which is different for everyone, nerves will be eased, and a relaxing atmosphere will be created for everyone to enjoy themselves.
A problem would probably only arise if alcohol tolerance levels differ greatly.
>LET'S GO TO A CLUB AND DRINK SO MUCH If even a single guy in the group does this, these aren't the right people. I fucking hate this type.
I'm scared about working for a Japanese given the drink culture.
I know a girl who says she's peer pressured to drink to the point of throwing up every time the office goes for drinks. I tell her just not to drink so much, but she says its impossible and she has to to maintain her relationship with her coworkers.
>>9578256 Well how old are you? I didn't start drinking until around 23. I mean it's really not so bad, it makes you feel good and you really have to put a massive amount of effort into getting hooked. >>9578345 I imagine that's more being a woman in Japan than anything else. I think being able to hold your liquor is probably something you should learn, just to have some concept of your limits. Knowing what is in drinks is good too because you can order on your own or take your time with higher ABV stuff.
Too much sake makes me horf really painfully. Fortunately my body seems to sound one NIGGER WHAT ARE YOU DOING alarm by making me feel pukey while still retaining, which gives me time for an informed decision on whether I want to stop or keep going and pay the price for it later.
This shit can be really treacherous. I just bought my first bottle because I just had to test it out. It's Misakura Daiginjo Sake, so not very high quality I assume.
If you take the time to savour it in your mouth it's somewhere between a dry white wine and cider - but it's much better than wine, and kicks a punch compared to cider(naturally). If you pour it straight to your throat you don't get the full taste, but the after taste is extremely pleasant - you get a mild taste of the sake, combined with a slight reminder of its alcoholic content. I am drinking it slightly chilled.
This is extremely easy to pour down your throat and it'll bite you in the ass if you don't pay attention - definitely a good social drink, but caution is required if you don't want to get too intoxicated.
Based on this, more expensive sake has the potential to be amazing.
I don't understand the necessity to simply get drunk - i.e. buy as cheap as possible. Why not invest in something that is actually enjoyable? You still get drunk, but you don't get shitfaced and you can communicate with your friends in a bit more coherent manner through the night.
It is perhaps a somewhat plebeian preference, but I always used to like Carlton Draught. There are probably other enjoyable Australian beers. My tastes are very Melbourne-centric, and I'm not sure what is on offer in other parts of the country.
I bought some Choya Extra Years for my birthday a couple weeks ago, but I still haven't opened it. It was a bitch finding it, and I've never had umeshu before. Has anyone here drunk it? Is it decent? I'm pondering opening it.
Beerfags are annoying. I don't care about how your liquid bread happens to be brewed by Bavarian nuclear scientists with links to the maize industry going back to 1398. It all tastes like shit, weak alcohol for fags who can't handle hard liquor.
I am sorry for bullying but as you can tell this has been on my chest for a long time
>>9583623 If you usually drink liquor, nothing is going to give you that burn except liquor. You might look into shochu/soju though, it's distilled to 20-25%. They are much more interesting than I expected in terms of flavor. Just like whiskey, the choice/mix of initial starch gives you different characteristics in the finished product.
>>9584145 Well, at least the sake is daiginjo (Misakura Daiginjo), in which yamada nishiki or other sakamai is used. The reason why I don't like this particular sake is because it has a hint of green apple taste - and I don't really fancy apples.
>>9584409 Both ginjo and daiginjo can have various flavors. You should read tasting reviews if you're looking for something in particular. The NY Times and SF Chronicle have articles from time to time.
>>9584409 Specific aroma profiles like that really depend on the type of yeast used. The most widely-used Kyokai #7 and #9 yeasts and their offsprings seem to give the strongest fruit aromas, although it's not absolute, especially since only 60~70% of breweries use these Japan Brewer's Association's designated yeasts. (The rest use their own secret recipe)
>>9584387 The most popular type of "unfiltered" sake is Nigorizake, whose sale was made legal by the brewery Tsuki no Katsura. In order for sake to be designated as "seishu," it was required by law for all sake to be filtered in some way.
The brewery was able to convince the right people that hey, why don't we use this super-coarse mesh to "filter" our brew, and although most of it will pass right through untouched, we'll still have techically "filtered" it! And that was how modern nigorizake was born.
The taste profile of nigorizake can vary tremendously. Most tend to go for a very quick and straightforward, powerful punch of a flavor profile, but there's also plenty of nigori that is bitter as hell.
These milky, rice-cloudy sakes have separate categories depending on just how much sediment is retained during the final bottling. With Nigorizake in the middle of this spectrum, there's "Usu-nigori," which has about half the cloudy sediment of regular Nigori, and there's also "Doburoku," which is just sake scooped out of the fermenting mash directly into the bottle with not even a coarse filtering.
Indeed, it is the Doburoku which is the true unfiltered sake. Unfortunately, this also means that elegance and refinement is completely thrown out the window.
Sold mainly for nostalgia's sake (no pun intended), doburoku is based on the brash homebrews that people used to make and drink without wasting any of the precious rice used in brewing (before this practice was outlawed, of course).
The one's I've drank were really hearty, almost like a porridge, and unfortunately only a select few were to my tastes. Most went for a very desert-like, thick, syrupy sweetness that was almost cloying.
I don't know why I strayed so far from your question. tl;dr, go for Nigorizake for unfiltered sake, and choose carefully depending on what you like (sweet vs dry). As I mentioned in a previous post on here, most nigori don't go for the high-grade complexity or subtlety, so don't get your hopes up for a miracle brew!
If you want an elegantly made but expensive nigorizake, go for the Tsuki no Katsura with the red label (which I posted on here as well)
pic related is a Doburoku I had last week, by Niwa no Uguisu. It was too thick for me to even drink. I had to fucking chew it. 60% polishing ratio of Yamada Nishiki rice. What a ripoff.
>>9586549 It sounds like there's nothing you don't particularly dislike. You should just go for the Sho Chiku Bai, even just to get an idea of every brand near you, and to figure out your own tastes, if nothing else.
Also, this is to anyone looking for specific recommendations. Unless you guys have a sake-specialty store in your area, it will be extremely hard for us to predict what your availability will be like.
The only solution in this case will be to simply try out as many as you possibly can. Only then will you have developed your palate enough to know what you even like. We can then work on much more easily from there.
Here's a good example of a brewery that makes both ends of the spectrum (sweet and dry) for Nigorizake.
Saijotsuru, in Hiroshima
The red bottle was almost candy-sweet, and the blue one was pretty bitter. I made the mistake of coating my mouth with the red one first, lol.
Both are Junmai, with no additives used to alter the flavor of the rice in any way. It's pure technique. This is why in sake brewing, there's a saying that goes, in order of importance, "First is Koji, Second is moto, Third is Shikomi (the act of brewing)"
Just one more vote for archival! Then we can let the thread die, if needed.